"Someone controls, but we don't know who"

According to Norwegian Ambassador to Ukraine Jon Elvedal Fredriksen, the activities in the embassy after the Maidan Revolution are seven to ten times higher now. Since the embassy was established in 1992, Ukraine has been a moderate bilateral partner for Norway. In particular, efforts have been made for sustainable energy, school and education, and not least a larger market for Norwegian seafood. Among the current work is support for internally displaced people, including through the Norwegian Refugee Council, which has now built a headquarters in Donetsk – in the area referred to as a high-risk zone by the EU. Reconstruction, food and fuel are being assisted by the war-affected villages. The Red Cross and various UN agencies also receive Norwegian support.
We meet Fredriksen the 30. November at the Norwegian Embassy in Kiev, exactly on the two-year anniversary of the establishment of Euromaidan. "The demonstrations started against President Yanukovych's withdrawal from agreements with the EU. But beyond the EU, these were also general demonstrations against corruption, nepotism and weak state institutions, ”says Fredriksen. "It became a powerful protest movement, far more powerful than the Orange Revolution in 2004."

Media. Ukrainian society underwent some obvious changes ahead of the Maidan events, unlike other post-Soviet states, according to Fredriksen. "Maidan had a strong civil society that evolved over time, which also emerged during the Orange Revolution in 2004 and in a lot of lobbying during the Yanukovych period. In addition, Ukrainian media and press contributed, although there is a problem that several of these are oligarchic. The last regime tried to gag both media and journalists, but many managed to inform people about what was going on. ”
I ask Fredriksen how many intellectuals he thinks exist in Ukraine, when the famous author Andrej Kurkov (see next New Time) assumed that there were probably no more than 30 truly intellectuals, and that these were largely on the border with the west of the city of Lviv. "I think that is a very modest estimate," replies the ambassador. "I'm not going to argue against Kurkov, but even I, a foreigner, would argue that there are far more than that. Ukraine is a large country, with many knowledgeable people. ”
But how great is the importance of culture in such a political upheaval that Ukraine is facing? Fredriksen believes one can easily underestimate the importance of culture when it comes to bringing people together: “Culture is not just 'glaze'; one can always achieve a lot with culture, even in a broad sense. In addition, during the crisis, there has been a huge support from volunteers. We notice that NGOs want cooperation with foreign countries, as with Norway, where they want partners more than funding assistance. That applies to most people here. ”
In Kiev one could also notice opposition media, such as English-language KyivPost and Ukrainian Vesti. KyivPost could make fun of the fact that the Prime Minister opened an anti-corruption conference in November, where they accused him of hypocrisy and of even being involved in corruption. The newspaper Vesti, for its part, was so pro-Russian that it was tried to be stopped with accusations of tax evasion, without success. Ny Tid tried to get a meeting with the newspaper's last editor without success. But what about President Poroshenko, who has not yet given up his own TV channel Kanal5? Fredriksen answers: "We were very worried about the murder of the former editor of the pro – Russian publication Vesti. He was killed by two extreme nationalists. Both were arrested and convicted. In addition, the accusation against Vesti as pro-Russian was dropped. Vesti comes out as before, with the same criticism of the authorities as before. They are probably not so pro-Russian, but rather critical of the government – something that should be allowed. Now it is no longer cracked down on critical media, since massive reactions from the media themselves make this ineffective. "
I ask if Fredriksen himself has commented that President Poroshenko owns a TV channel. "It's no secret that Poroshenko owns Channel 5, and I think he's going to keep it," he replies. "The real problem with the media in Ukraine is that nobody knows who is behind them. Someone controls them, but we don't know who. "

NATO. What many are wondering is how NATO can create tensions with Ukraine's relations with Russia. Jens Stoltenberg also recently visited here. According to Fredriksen, NATO cooperation has been going on for many years, within the NATO-Ukraine Commission, funds have been used to rehabilitate former soldiers, remove land mines, and modernize the Ukrainian military: “NATO has long held an office here in Kiev. Following the Orange Revolution in Ukraine and the Rose Revolution in Georgia, both Ukraine and Georgia expressed a desire to become part of NATO. But all countries that want to join NATO must meet certain requirements, so I don't think Ukraine will join NATO immediately. ”

"The really big problem with the media in Ukraine is that nobody knows who is behind them."

But if that happened, a scenario where NATO military was more clearly in place in Ukraine, what is Fredriksen's comment on such a scenario? “I think we should be cautious about speculating, but it is obvious that the choice of social models and governance is high on the agenda when it comes to tensions between Russia, Europe and the United States. This has to do with Russia's reluctance to allow former Soviet states to join NATO. At the same time, Russia has been open that it will make countermeasures against Ukraine if they enter into the FTA with the EU coming in 2016. It says a lot about how different the worldview is in Russia and in Europe. ”

Crimea. While Ny Tid visited Ukraine, the Crimean peninsula's power supply was sabotaged by Crimean Tatars tearing down some power lines from Ukraine – 80 percent of the energy supply was paralyzed, and Crimea ended up in a state of emergency. Crimean Tatars also blocked food supplies on the roads of Crimea. Can one call Russia's takeover of Crimea an occupation? "Norway's official position is that Crimea has been illegally annexed by Russia, in violation of international law, the UN and the OSCE," says Fredriksen. "This is unacceptable, and many of the current sanctions against Russia in which Norway is involved are precisely due to the annexation of Crimea. Russia has incorporated Crimea into the Russian Federation. "
What about the indigenous people, the Crimean Tatars (see next New Time)? "We highlighted the situation of the Crimean Tatars both before and after the conflict with Russia," replies Fredriksen. “There have been problems related to land, property and cultural rights for these minorities. We were about to fund an international conference, but it was canceled because of the annexation of Crimea. The Tatars are under tremendous pressure from Russian authorities. We are constantly hearing about arrests. Their leaders are in exile here in Kiev, and are not allowed to travel to Crimea. The UN and the European Parliament report on human rights violations. The recent events of demonstrations and blockades show an ever-increasing willingness to resist the Crimean Tatars. ”

Human rights. When it comes to human rights, the Norwegian Human Rights House has also been working with Ukraine for a long time, and I ask Fredriksen to comment on this Norwegian organization. "They have done and are doing a great job of bringing together a number of smaller organizations here in Kiev and elsewhere in Ukraine, and more importantly, what human rights issues they have managed to get on the agenda here."
I end the conversation by asking Fredriksen to make a few important points for Ukraine's future. "First, it is important to work for the human rights of the internally displaced," says the ambassador. “Their human rights and dignity must be safeguarded. In addition, we have the human rights situation of those living in the conflict zones and the annexed areas. This requires a change in both the legal security and the criminal justice system. Ukraine is still characterized by Soviet times, and this takes time. Those who stood at Maidan and wanted to change something, first and foremost, want legal certainty. They do not want more corruption – something that is impossible to overcome unless legal certainty is at stake. People need to feel the change in the corrupt practices of the justice system. ”
"Second, the collusion of politics and business, which facilitates corruption, is a major problem in Ukraine. Of course, society had to face a crisis. Ukraine needs a judicial system that is independent of both the government, parliament and economic interests. And normal wages are needed. From next year, we will see stronger cooperation on the legal system between Norway and Ukraine. Also note that the patrol police, traditionally known to be one of the most corrupt devices in Ukraine, made drastic changes last summer. Recruiting new ones with proper pay seems to work. Several attempts have been made to bribe them, but they resist. This is something we need to take further into the deeper legal structures, not just the police. "

Lie is the editor of Ny Tid. truls@nytid.no