(THIS ARTICLE IS MACHINE TRANSLATED by Google from Norwegian)
The interview is filmed Jonas Bangsund, and will soon be included here in a short edition edited by the editors.
The French love revolutions. Especially those that take place in the streets. But not all French revolutions have taken place in the wide boulevards of Paris. Eva Joly was not very bloody – but dramatic and not insignificant when she, as a judge in the public prosecutor's office, put one French business and society leader after another against the wall, and not least in prison, for corruption and tax evasion. She was exposed and convicted former Foreign Minister and head of the French Constitutional Council – one of the country's highest offices – Roland Dumas, who had to leave his position due to corruption in the extensive Elf case. The same applied to a number of banking and business leaders, who were convicted of gross corruption and put behind bars. Crazy, narcissistic, icy cold, revolutionary – few accusations against the brave Norwegian woman were missing from the French establishment. "They did not understand that I was not looking for individuals, but for the system that facilitated corruption," she replied to the critics. Eva Joly has now embarked on another system with the same goal: the EU system and how it can facilitate the fight against corruption and tax evasion. Ny Tid meets an energetic and purposeful woman of 73 who does not intend to give up the fight against some of society's worst forces.
It is not easy to enter the European Parliament's iconic building in Strasbourg. Comprehensive security checks are one thing. Finding the right entrance among soaring columns is also demanding. The corridors are narrow, the elevators are slow and the offices small. People are pouring in and out, surrounded by assistants, advisors, journalists and lobbyists. The pace is high. Everyone wants without parliamentarian in speech, in languages we cannot place, before this month's plenary polls – whether it be climate, corruption or roaming. It feels like being in a political ant wall, far from the dark, stone-heavy and often empty hallways of the Norwegian parliament.
Corruption hunter. We meet Eva Joly in her office in The European Parliament, where she sits as the elected representative for the eighth year. Many would say she failed as presidential candidate in 2012, with her barely 2,5 percent of the vote. But there is little doubt that she enjoys enormous respect among the French people for her work as a corruption hunter. Therefore, she was re-elected to the European Parliament from the Green Party for the second five-year term in 2014.
There is little we want to discuss with Norway's only European parliamentarian. The EU project appears more shaky than ever: Brexit, Greece, terror, the Turkey agreement, Schengen borders and ever-high youth unemployment. Moreover, for many, EU cooperation appears to be a bureaucratic mastodont where the interests of the individual disappear in the elite's continuous pursuit of ever-increasing power. People are afraid that supranational decisions are being made at the expense of the nation state's interests in promoting globalization that leads to poverty for most people and wealth for the few. Trump and Brexit say it all. How is it possible to sit in a small office in Strasbourg and think that you can make the world better? we ask Eva Joly.
We do not get the answer many on the left want to hear – that the capitalist system has failed, or that the liberal model that has dominated the post-war era is falling. Or that the four freedoms of EU cooperation are a threat to the identity and existence of the nation-state, as political forces on the far right claim. It would be wrong to claim that Eva Joly does not share these arguments, but as a participant in Europe's most important political arena, she is passionate about using the institutions and mechanisms that EU cooperation has built up over the last 70 years.
"We have to take the problems people are experiencing seriously," she says. Populism does not solve problems, but we do not solve the problems, increase populism, I try – but quickly understand that I have opened an open door. For Eva Joly, this is not the kind of politician who makes sweeping and imprecise general statements. Or not to mention banalities. Joly is a woman of action. She is used to using her democratic rights and bites herself into an endless and intertwined justice system to address the most difficult issues. She therefore quickly turns the conversation into the details of how she is using her last chance, the European Parliament, to continue the fight against tax fraud and corruption. After eight years, she begins to master the EU's most important, but perhaps least understood, arena. Now she uses parliament to take political initiatives and create alliances among colleagues in other parties and with authorities in the member states. This in order to adopt effective legislation her successors in the French and other EU countries can apply. Eva Joly is arguably Europe's foremost advocate for bringing corruption and tax fraud to life.
European Public Prosecutor. Her answer to what the EU can do to stave off rising populism is clearly in the "more EU rather than less" category. It is the nation's all too often hair-raising inability and the tools to tackle specific problems she wants to face. Therefore, she meets populism by establishing mechanisms that can address areas where society has failed. Quietly but energetically, she talks about the valuable collaboration with her German colleague Sven Giegold for the creation of a European public prosecutor's office: "You know, we can't fight corruption with 200-year-old weapons," she says, referring to today's useless practice of " international legal claims ».
"Forced expulsion of young Syrians at night in 28 degrees of cold from Kirkenes to Russia, considered a safe country? I won't forget that at first. "
“We need a European public prosecutor, a European level prosecutor who can investigate corruption and VAT evasion across borders. Tens of billions of euros are wondered every year, ”Joly points out. Together with Giegold, she has reached a compromise that respects the sovereignty of the national courts of the member states, while at the same time investigations can take place at European level. The concept is to create a college where each country sends one state attorney. They should be able to investigate each other's countries into groups of three and three. In this way, they can investigate the same case in several countries simultaneously, coordinated from Brussels. This will create the necessary distance between the government lawyer and the authorities. Because as a state attorney in comprehensive and international corruption cases, Joly knows from his own experience how the legal system works: "Active justice ministers will no longer be able to say 'be careful here' – and then trace investigations that may result in political crises, such as missing results of investigation. in Italy and France shows, ”she says.
As rapporteur for the bill on a European public prosecutor, Eva Joly has brought the proposal from a niche project for the Greens to a widely accepted initiative by a single European Parliament. Together with colleagues from other EU countries, including in other major party groups, she has coordinated intense lobbying with governments and political environments in leading member countries. The victory was to get Germany to agree that VAT evasion should be included in the mandate. The disappointment was great when Sweden, of all countries, turned its thumb during the vote in the EU Council of Ministers, the EU's other legislative body, and thus brought with it the usual "culprits" – countries from Central and Eastern Europe that do not want change.
"But we're not giving up," Joly emphasizes. There is a tiny chance that EU heads of state will put the necessary pressure on Sweden, the Netherlands and the other skeptics at the summit in March 2017. "The council often drowns in mediocrity and in its own interests," she adds. "Plan B is to promote the proposal under the Lisbon Treaty article on enhanced cooperation – that at least nine member states can join together on a separate project." With France and Germany at the forefront, Joly hopes to include 15, maybe 20 member states, thus establishing a supranational legal binding cooperation on the fight against corruption. Anything for Norway? I think. But it turns me off quickly. We don't have mafia states here at home. Until Joly lifts her eyes over the distinctive glasses and looks at me sternly: "Both the Attorney General and the leader of the eco-crime should have resigned after they referred the Transocean case, where Økokrim withdrew the appeal case just before it went up in Borgarting Court of Appeal. You can quote me on that. "
But the citizens then, Joly? We can adopt all kinds of rules without benefiting the citizens?
"Europeans are the only citizens in the world who have their own regulations on the quality of drinking water, the use of dangerous chemicals and air pollution," she replies. "Yes, France sacrificed people's health to save the Peugot family (with reference to the diesel engine tax levy), but today France is subject to major fines by the European Court of Justice. France may also lose the right to vote in the EU Council of Ministers if they do not release the health-threatening air pollution. ”Joly does not blame the blacksmith – she will not blame the EU for the EU countries not even enforcing the legislation they themselves negotiated, adopted and implemented .
Don't trust the US. It was not only Norwegian naivety and the belief in the good that made Eva Joly succeed in France. It was first and foremost her stamina and ability to break the code of the tax planners. After almost eight years in the European Parliament, she is breaking a new code: She wants to create and apply EU-level regulations in the fight against tax havens – a struggle no nation-states can win alone. With German and British colleagues, she has published three studies on Ikea, BASF and the clothing giant Zara's parent companies. The reports show how much and how the companies have evaded tax by using loopholes. "These are empires that provide a basis for changing legislation," she says. A new directive on bookkeeping will prevent the old practice. Again the initiative arose in her own party group in parliament, the Greens, but the proposal has now been accepted by all the major party groups. For the time being, the Secretariat of the EU Council of Ministers is opposed, because they believe it deals with tax policy that will require the unanimity of all EU member states – which in practice is almost impossible. Parliament insists that this applies to business law and is covered by the Treaty. The rant about the definition is ongoing, but it looks like Joly has a plan that can succeed.
“Despite all the weaknesses of the EU system, I am convinced that a change can be made. I'm very optimistic, because I know it's useful, "says Joly. The political uncertainty Brexit and Trump have provoked, to a greater extent opens up for better hearing and support for ideas and suggestions from the party The Greens have argued for a long time. "We will impose tariffs on all products dumped on the European market," she says, referring to Swedish Commissioner Cecilia Malmström's efforts to introduce new trade policy measures against China and other countries selling products in the EU for less than that. costs to produce them. The same applies to countries that do not respect human rights or climate change. A carbon tax on goods from countries without climate measures is now on the stairs – something Jolie's French colleagues Yannick Jadot and Emmanuel Martin have argued for a long time. The EU must also be better able to control the common external borders of the Schengen countries. And last but not least, Joly is eager for EU countries to build a common defense by putting our military capabilities under joint command. "We can no longer rely on the United States," notes Joly.
The opinion has understood that. Eva Joly is keen to show that work is useful. “We get to do amazing things. There was only one thing I overlooked when I was ridiculed by leaders and politicians in France and Norway: It takes a generation to get from idea to reality. It takes 20-25 years to achieve change. ”She highlights another strong person: Margrethe Vestager (EU Commissioner for Competition). "Vestager's decision to impose a $ 13 billion fine on Apple will change the way multinational companies operate," says Joly. She explains that it is only the EU, through its total economic and political power, that can implement such measures. "No single state would have been able to take up the fight alone. Now many other issues are pending. ”The Commission has based EU competition policy in its indictment of Apple – claiming tax optimization represents illegal state aid since there is a benefit other companies cannot enjoy. And violations of EU competition policy mean that CFOs and lawyers who have designed the system are personally responsible for their work and can be punished. "They haven't figured it out yet," Joly says with a small smile. "Times are changing – public opinion has figured it out: The multinational companies that are aggressively optimizing tax, are in fact operating with tax cheats – and will be brought to justice. This has been achieved by the EU, ”she says.
What about Norway? In one of the world's largest democratically elected assemblies from 28 European countries, there are over 750 representatives. None of them are from Norway. A natural final question to ask Norway's sole representative in the European Parliament is how Norway's role in Europe is perceived.
"Norway stands alone," Joly replies. “Norway has in many ways been a model in global development and international peace work, but I think that role is becoming more and more unclear. Norway has not let its voice heard in the biggest crisis in Europe, which we are in the middle of now, namely the migration crisis. On the contrary, Norway's attitude has been almost obscene. Forced expulsion of young Syrians at night in 28 degrees of cold from Kirkenes to Murmansk – considered a safe country? I won't forget that at first. "
I push in that we could need her voice in the Norwegian debate. "Sure, but it needs more in France!" Comes immediately from her adviser in Parliament as Joly leaves us. She must vote in the plenary session of the European Parliament. After all, that's where politics is created.
