(THIS ARTICLE IS MACHINE TRANSLATED by Google from Norwegian)
Kim Nordlie is the director of the employer department of the Norwegian Trade and Service Industry's Main Organization (HSH). In the current conflict between HSH and the Norwegian Transport Workers' Federation, Kim Nordlie is negotiating leader. He has strongly opposed the Norwegian Transport Workers' Federation's demand for more in pay to the trade unions.
- It is not a strike about pay, but about a principle. How important is this to you at HSH?
- For us, this principle is extremely important. We believe that it is wrong to pay people to join a trade union. Freedom of association is fundamental to our democracy. People should be able to decide for themselves which organizations or associations they are part of. It is also important that people themselves should be able to decide on what they use the money for which they are paid by the employer. At the same time, the employer does not interfere in what the employees use the money for.
The quality of a democracy can be judged on how one treats the minority. In this context, the unorganized are a minority that the trade union wants to discriminate against.
- Do you have any sympathy for the demand for a wage supplement for those who are members of a trade union?
- No. The claim is unfair. What the Norwegian Transport Workers' Union demands here is the opposite of what both trade unions and the women's movement have fought for for decades. The fight for equal pay for equal work has been an important battle issue that we have had in Norway. It is therefore completely incomprehensible that the Norwegian Transport Workers' Union now demands that this be changed again.
There is no point in saying that what is decisive is what a worker is left with in his net salary. The requirement is different pay for the same work, and that the employer must pay people to be organized. I cannot sympathize for such a claim.
- The unions focus on the fact that they want to get rid of the free passengers who get the same rights in the workplace that the unions have negotiated, without paying for membership in the unions ??
- It is a declaration of bankruptcy when the unions want more in wages for the organized. It is voluntary to organize. The unions should have something more to offer as a lure than paid membership of the employer.
The unions can offer their members a wide range of benefits such as favorit program, affordable insurance and even the opportunity to influence the companies through influence on the corporate management. These are benefits that the disorganized must not take advantage of. They do not have reasonable insurance schemes or have any employee representative they can talk to when something is happening at work.
Regardless of how we turn this question around, the organizers have a number of advantages that the unorganized do not have. Those benefits are something they achieve through organizing. The disorganized have chosen to stand outside themselves. It becomes completely wrong to focus on more in pay to a group that already has many privileges through its membership.
- You call the strike demand a declaration of bankruptcy. Do you have to explain that?
- The unions must ensure that they are so attractive to the employees that they will pay to join. One third of the companies in HSH have a collective agreement. This does not mean that two-thirds of the companies do not have orderly conditions in the workplace, on the contrary. If a Norwegian company is to be able to compete for the best workforce, it must offer the best conditions to its employees.
- You have granted four applications out of several thousand for dispensation. Why have not more people been granted a dispensation from the strike?
- Those who really need a dispensation get it. And we assess this continuously. If life and health are at stake, they will receive a dispensation from us.
As we see it, there is a completely irresponsible line the Norwegian Transport Workers' Union has chosen. They print continuous exemptions. They don't even read who the sender is. Among other things, they have dispensed to about 20 applicants from the Northwest Region who are not affected by the strike at all. We can't have such a casual holding for this.
- How long can this strike be?
- We can hold on for as long as we have to. We will not give up, and employers will never agree to pay the membership fee to unionized unions. It is a voluntary choice that the individual must make, and the membership fee must be paid from the salary they are paid, regardless of whether they are organized or not. We hear the rhetoric from the strikers, but we are unwavering in our position.
- Do you not want to be organized in the companies?
- We want as many people as possible to be organized in our workplaces. We have also invited LO to discuss how we can get more people to organize. We see a clear advantage in having employees who are organized.
We cannot get into that dialogue with the unions until after the strike is over. We want a dialogue where we get a system that is not undemocratic and that should not be unfair either.
It is not very smart to strike for a demand for different salaries to get more people to organize. This principle is not suitable in wages, strikes or wage negotiations. What we need is a dialogue between employers and trade unions about how we can jointly see more people see the benefit of being organized.
- The Norwegian Transport Workers' Union has gone hard?
- Their willingness to conflict surprises me. I find it difficult to see what they have gained by showing this willingness to conflict. They themselves have admitted that they have not come as far as they had hoped in recent years despite a number of major conflicts.
I believe that it is not possible to conflict with higher wages and better conditions. Nor do I know anyone who will honor conflict seekers. Those who collaborate and participate in dialogue are the ones who ultimately receive the most and are best honored.
- Does HSH steer towards the wage board?
- We do not. On the other hand, I believe that the other party is heading towards the wage board with its dispensation policy. By not carefully considering who gets a dispensation, the transport workers create a difficult situation in the warehouses. Their policy leads to the warehouses being emptied more quickly, and this can create serious problems when we cannot be delivered to an institution where there can be life and death.
- Is the strike coming to an end?
- It does not look like that today. The parties do not talk to each other, and we will only get in touch when the time is right. And it is not ripe yet.
But I can see signs from the counterpart that indicate that they are understanding that the claims are unrealistic. The best sign is that they are so little critical of who gets waivers.
- You have a past as active in SV. Can the positions you stand for today be reconciled with the positions SV stands for?
- What political positions I have today and had 10 years ago is in itself unimportant in this context. But I assume that SV still supports freedom of association. SV was one of the advocates for everyone to have equal pay for equal work. I support this position.
And I have not registered that SV has left this position.
